Thursday, March 06, 2008

Upon Further Reflection...

...Ohio still SUCKS! Screw Ohio. Go to college, jag-offs.

At least the exit polls show they were honest about the degree to which their own blatant racism influenced their voting.

Maybe we can rally the Amish in Pennsylvania to put this thing to bed once and for all.


stridewideman said...

That's the problem with OH. Folks who are from there (like myself) go to college. Then we leave immediately. What with the lack of any viable economic opportunity, the brain drain from the state is pretty intense.

Anonymous said...

I dont remember hearing much about Obama campaining in Ohio. maybe if he had spent a bit more time in the state,

haahnster said...

Hold up there, "anonymous"! Where's the fun in blaming the candidate himself? That'll never work.

the cold cowboy said...

meh, he spent roughly a shitload of time in the state. i worked on the campaign in c-bus and saw him in toledo as well. i certainly won't say he couldn't have done a better job. the last few days were apparently poorly executed, though i wasn't paying attention: i was trying to explain to columbus homeowners that he wasn't a muslim.

i'm from ohio and ohio still blows.

Anonymous said...

Yeah exactly. shitloads of time in franklin county cuyahoga county. you know the urban counties he won. but where didnt he campaign or win? every other fucking county. bill clinton was all over the place in southern ohio. obama should have shown up outside urban areas if he wanted to win. dont tell people to "go to college" you jerk. it condescending. i'm from ohio too and i know it has problems. but have enough class not to look down your nose at people.

haahnster said...

Ohioans are not uneducated, racist slobs, "as far as I know."

There, a "classy" response that could've come from Hillary herself!

And, for the record, I am a jerk. That much is undisputed.

Anonymous said...

what does going to college have to do with being a racist? is college the racism cure?

yes, you are a jerk. get your head out of your ass.

haahnster said...

I never asserted that college was a "racism cure." I referred to exit polling results in Ohio that might (emphasis on "might") be construed as racist:

20% responded that the race of the candidate was important, and of those 59% went for Clinton, only 39% for Obama.

This is in contrast to the 17% who said gender was important, which went 60% for Clinton and 40% for Obama.

I say "in contrast" because gender appeared to be important to those who wanted to vote FOR the woman, whereas race appeared to be important to those who wanted to vote AGAINST the African-American.

But, mainly, I was just being provocative. Obviously, it worked, as you've joined the dialogue, even as it appears to be an obvious strain on your emotional/mental well-being.

Leslie said...

Some questions:

If you′re not saying college is a racism cure, then what do you mean Ohioans need to go to college?

If you don′t vote for Obama, does that mean you′re automatically racist? Your original post is just brief enough and vague enough for people to wonder what exactly you mean.

Also, was Texas to be expected so they don′t get any heat from your finger pointing and gross generalizations?

Ohio has some problems but so does every other state. And there are many of us who went to college and have stayed, trying to make some sort of a difference. I hope that instead of fleeing to the Promised Land of Illinois or another liberal state, my vote may actually tip the scales here.

Anonymous said...

Leslie is right. There really isn't any other way to interpret the post. Its saying, Ohio people are a bunch of uneducated racist dum-dums who didn’t go to college like you haanster, you smarty-smarty.

If you are referring to data or polls, for god sake post the info to make your point.

You also aren’t addressing any of the substance of the posts. About how Obama only won three urban counties. How he didn’t campaign at all downstate. Bill Clinton held almost 70 rallies in rural Ohio. The Clintons have good relations with working class people. I’m not defending racist people in Ohio, but Obama didn’t lose because Ohioans are working class racists writ-large.

Here’s something I learned in college that might be helpful to you. Critical engagement doesn’t mean finding the wrong in everything. Your original post was very childish and designed to provoke a self-righteous pile on of Ohio. I’m disappointed that the cowboy and stridewide took your bait. Some great discourse I joined. Thanks for getting the ball rolling haanster.

Rob said...

Anon, regardless of the tone of the original post, wasn't B. Clinton just doing the same thing Obama was doing, i.e. campaigning in the places where his support was the strongest? Are you saying an Obama campaign stop in Athens would have put him over the top in the state? Seems doubtful to me.

haahnster said...

Leslie: You're probably right. College is just a source of great personal development and enhanced career opportunity everywhere ELSE but Ohio. Not all Hillary voters are racist, some are just reverse-sexist. Regarding Texas, the delegate split was exactly 50% each, so no harm no foul on their part. (I would make some gross generalization about Latinos, but you haven't caught on to any of the irony yet. So, I fear it would be wasted.)

"Anonymous": My post was certainly childish, but was not designed to provoke a self-righteous pile on of Ohio. It was designed to self-righteously express a certain level of frustration, and see what the response was. I'd say it went over about as expected. Thanks for playing!

Anonymous said...

I doubt it would have made a difference too.

Hillary didn’t only campaigned in rural areas and Obama only in urban ones. The Clinton people campaigned in BOTH. Obama didnt. Chances are he would have lost anyway, but to get votes you need to show up in those places, shake hands at the local dairy queen or whatever. Lots of people in urban counties voted for Hillary too don’t forget. She was on local Cleveland morning programs all week before the primary. Governor Strickland endorsed her. There are lots of baby boomer women in Ohio. They like Hillary. He might have been able to tighten the margins, that’s all. Maybe his campaign did the math and concluded it wasn’t worth the time. That’s possible, I don’t really know.

The point is that were a lot of factors that could have made for a good discussion here. The unbelievable obnoxious Haanster's post has forced me to take a harder position than I would have in a more reasoned discussion. I volunteered for Obama and was disappointed in the Ohio result. As I was in 2000 and 2004. I am also frustrated and angered by people who vote based on race and I won’t make excuses for people who do.

If this has turned into a good thread, it’s not because of the idiotic initial post, which for some reason also included a trenchant remark about the Amish. Gee, can we pick an easier target?

That kind of elitist attitude bugs me, especially when a post telling people they need to go to college is so poorly written. The comments betrayed a further lack of substance, just a bunch of smarty-pants boilerplate. For all Haanster’s bravado throughout the comments thread, I hope privately he considers what his posts are really saying, whether he means it or not. Simply putting the ball into play doesn’t count a useful contribution to the discourse. It would be nice to see more evidence of thought from an official contributor.

Rob said...

Oh, come on. The comment abut the Amish was obviously a joke. Besides, as targets go, the Amish is probably a pretty harmless one, since as far as I know AMillionMonkeys has zero Amish readers.

So let's take this post as a bit of frustration from a disappointed Obama-supporter and dispense with the fainting act.

g33kgrrl said...

Heya Leslie! I fled to California, but came back to the Midwest. I picked Illinois because I like big cities, not because it's a Promised Land. ;)

And as someone who was college-educated in Ohio, but did leave: there are a lot of people trying to make a difference, and you can't expect a candidate to be everywhere all at once, especially when other states have primaries on the same day. Sadly. Now, if we could clone Obama...

PS I tried to post this comment in Firefox, but the visual verification isn't working. Don't know if it's a browser thing or something else, but - I had to open up IE. Eurgh!

thefinalgirl said...

Perhaps if Haanster could have written a post with the same intellectual rigor and integrity as other contributors to this blog have done (really, I learn a lot from Rob & co.), we would have been more attuned to his “irony.”

For me it was hard to decide on a candidate. I like both equally, and I think to have either one in office would be a great leap forward for our country on many levels. There might be some voters who are voting for Hilary based on “reverse sexism” but there are just as many who are voting for Obama for plain, good old-fashioned sexism. It′s good to know that sites like Anyone but Hillary .com exist, right? (And--duh----many African American voters are voting for Obama based on his race alone too, but let′s not mention that.)

Full disclosure: I voted for Obama, but everyday I wonder if I should have voted for Hillary. Either way, I will be happy to vote for whoever gets the Democratic nomination.

I don′t usually post here because I don′t feel as politically aware as Rob or the other contributors, but when I read such a smug, holier-than-thou post, I take umbrage.

geekgrrl: I didn′t mean to infer that anyone who moves to Illinois or another liberal state has the same attitude. I was directing it only to Haanster′s implied sense of moral, educational, etc. superiority.

Rob said...

Well, first. AMillionMonkeys isn't, you know, the New Yorker, so there should be room for frustrated sarcasm alongside the slightly more airy reasoned discourse. For whatever it's worth, let's note that my long, reasonable post above has gotten exactly one comment, and here we are still talking about this one. Just saying, reasoned discourse isn't the only type of valid discourse.

What I do think is an unintended irony of this post, though, is that Haahnster, an Obama supporter who feels really negatively toward Clinton, employed the thoroughly Clintonian tactic of insulting/dismissing the states his candidate didn't win! It might feel good to do this, but if Clintonites can't dismiss caucus states or states with a lot of African-Americans, surely Obama people also can't dismiss states with a lot of working class whites.

But then, as far as I know Haahnster is not a paid campaign operative, and was not articulating the official message of the campaign. And anyway last week was a tough week for Obama supporters, so I think we can grant a little leeway.

Still, the truth here is that different groups, different regions and different individuals just see the race differently, and they have their own reasons.

Thanks finalgirl and everyone else who posted here. But I am closing this particular thread now. If anyone on this thread -- or even anyone reading it -- ever wants to post to AMillionMonkeys, please drop me an email.)